Curse

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 06, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Every game has its warts and moles; for some, leprosy is more the correct prognosis.
Aye, no doubt there is room for improvement in Guild Wars, but what does it do "right" that its competitors fail to do?

Several very basic and meaningful things:

1.) Class Balance.
GW sets a new bar for this. Think I'm kidding? Go play EQ2, WoW, EQ, Lineage 2 or CoH as I have - extensively. There are complete classes that are gimped and others that are ridiculously powerful. GW is the most balanced online RPG I have played ever.
Again, if you wish to whine this is not so, please be specific. I have played all the GW archetypes as primary and secondary - they are all excellent, useful, and balanced. No two of my four characters is the same class.

2.) More playing skill, less xp grind required.
Okay - I realize some may bristle at this, (apologies in advance) but this is one of the few games that rewards players who show skill in playing. (The only other possibility being original EQ at raid level) If you are clever, wise, and learn from your mistakes, you will succeed. If not, you are kept at your highest point of competence. . . which for some is pre-searing Ascalon lol...Truth be told, I prefer the NPCs to most players - they are more intelligent and less suicidal. (Except for Alesia lol..)

I for one appreciate a good trap or tactic - even if I am the recipient of such. I find the missions from Kryta on to be challenging, interesting, and require flexibility in your tactics and approach to succeed.
Aye, I have had to do some of the missions over a few times, but that's the fun of it - go play EQ2 if you want a "always succeed" model - just follow the easy "only kill green con MOBs rule." The ascension alone seperates the adults from the . . adultresses!

3.) The levels are meaningful.
Many of my friends frown at GW and state, "It looks interesting, but only 20 levels? It can't possibly be any good." Level 20 in GW is easily the equal of level 50 in EQ2 (or other comparisons) Besides, what use is the number after your name and class if you have no skill?

I was searching for a next generation RPG, and I was decieved into thinking EQ2 and then WoW were it. GW is a breath of fresh air in what has been otherwise a very stale room for online RPGs.
I look forward to the expansions.

May your skills prevail,

Talesin Darkbriar

eA-Zaku · Jun 06, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

I agree totally. Since I've been dragged into many WoW > GW debates, I've made these FACTUAL arguments before. It's nice to have a good place to cite/quote from (which is your post :P)

Flame · Jun 06, 2005, 07:40 PM // 19:40

A few of my friends play Ragnarok Online, and have been for a while. (The story is I was a Beta Tester, and told them about it, but when the game hit retail, I was disgusted by the rather large monthly fee.) We had a Ventrilo server that we used just to talk, but the majority of the time, the talk was about the strongest of all of them talking about how he got one percent to the maximum level. He would spend hours getting a single percent, and if he ever died (you lose 1% of your experience if you die) he would freak out. They always complained about how long it took, how much work it was, and how much stress it was. I suggested they play Guild Wars, and their first response was "Only up to level 20?"

More games should be like this. When I'm making a party, I'm worried less about what level a player is and more about whether I can stand to be around them for an hour, if they are the right class for what we need, and if they can come through in a clutch. Bravo, ArenaNet.

Lewick · Jun 06, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

My opinions about what has been done right:

- Weapon maximums have been set and adhered to. You know you have a max weapon when you have it. The only modifications are getting a rare with a specific +modifier of some variety and applying items to that weapon to change its specifics.

- Item alteration and overwriting - If you apply something to an item and you realize it's not exactly what you intended, you can overwrite it with a different item and at least get back to some semblance of normality

- Attribute changes on the fly - This is THE most important of the things they did right. Let's say you're a R/Mo (as my primary character is) and you go to do a mission in which you need more healing power. You drop one of your other attributes a little lower by spending a few of your points, and then inflate the healing prayers line. Now you're a viable backup healer for that mission. When the mission's done, you respec yourself to your normal build.

- Map discovery - Another of the things I think they did right. The map discovers as you go. You get cloud of war (in Blizzard terms) to start, and as you progress, the map changes fidelity. It's persistent and they did a really good job with this aspect. Also, city-to-city travel is a great benefit for moving around.

- Positive/negative impact of runes - Another great balancing act. You want that superior rune of marksmanship? Well, it's going to cost you, and it's going to cost you in hitpoints. It makes building a character a balancing act between the positives of an item and the inherant negatives of that item.

Those are some of the things I think they did right. I think they did more right than wrong in the game, which is why I find it an enjoyable game to play.

Volarian · Jun 06, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

I agree with everything said so far - I have mass past experience with MMORPGS but I can say from playing GW so far, that it makes you WANT to get to lvl 20 just to truly see the rest of the game.....and the adventure up to ascension is nothing to scoff at. Great graphics, resources, skill interaction based on build....lots of things to chose from and as also previously stated the ability to change those combo's based on the area you're in.
I don't have the time or ineptitude to figure out the best combo's (later in the game...elite skills etc) but it is a goal to get there and enjoy. Sure I get a lil pissy when I die or when alesia runs headlong into a bunch of Wraiths, Necridhorseman and such but that's why I love my Elemental build......since she's tied to my character and I'm at range...she typically stays back with me :-).
Agreed on the Runes/Build reference, and the way they've measured the advancement of skills related to where you place att pts. You know right off the bat that there's No way you're to become ubber based off 1 skill or Spell no matter how much you pump into it and that balancing that Sup Rune of Fire Magic with a Sup Rune of Vigor, simply allows you to build up another att to make you more balanced. EXcellent.

Volarian · Jun 06, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

oops that should be "I have NO mass past experience with MMORPGS"

DarrenJasper · Jun 06, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

SWG had leprosy.

JUST WANTED TO SAY.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 06, 2005, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

SWG had leprosy.

JUST WANTED TO SAY.

SOE in general is inflicted with an acute case of it.
I believe it will prove fatal - they are both RPG manufacturer negatives;

arrogant & greedy.

Gerbill · Jun 07, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

MHM I totally agree.

all the MMORPG's I've played are really unbalanced..

Ragnarok Online
- Priest, Wizards and Monks
WoW
- Paladins and Rogues
Lineage II
- Treasure Hunters

ownage classes

if you can tell me a profession combination in Guildwars that OWNS all, you're either arrogant, out of your mind, or not informed bout the way to counter it.
you defenitly notice it in PvP let's say you have a winning streak of like 15 wins and think damn this team is invincible suddenly another team pops up and totally wipes your team out, there's always a way to be countered.

what I like aswel, which balances it aswel, there is no UBER equipment, that would only make the players who play a lot longer be SO much stronger, just because they had more time in getting one of them UBER weapons.

if you look trough the skin of Guildwars you see this game isn't about levels/stats/skills/equipment, sure it's all in there and needed. but the true power behind it is that the player makes a good character, unlike other MMO's where time+equipment do that for you.

Flame · Jun 07, 2005, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerbill

if you can tell me a profession combination in Guildwars that OWNS all, you're either arrogant, out of your mind, or not informed bout the way to counter it.

A Dinosaur/Pirate

It will seize your booty (females) or stomp you into Forgotten Seals.

In other news, the NPC-based economy works pretty well. It is much easier to sell an item to an NPC, and for nearly the money you would make selling it to a player, so people do that. This shows how rare an item is, and the price drops, so players buy more of them cheaply, so the price rises again...

And we haven't gotten to the point yet where people buy an item only to sell it at a later point in the day for meager profits

ManadartheHealer · Jun 07, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Every game has its warts and moles; for some, leprosy is more the correct prognosis.
Aye, no doubt there is room for improvement in Guild Wars, but what does it do "right" that its competitors fail to do?

Wow. What a refreshing thread